Photography Business Forum

Hello Vincent,
I am German living in the USA. Trust me we have the same issues here. Part of it are the clients and the need to educate them and the other big part are photographers who do not take the business part of our industry seriously. I have licensed stock images to Europe in the past. Locally I see much of the same problems as you do. I don't have the answer other that I set my terms and have send people away who do not seek quality but simply a low price to get their photography done. I do try and educate when ever I get a chance. The Walmart culture is well and strong. Those people I can't change. Some learn and come back. The key is to set yourself well apart. Learn to negotiate well. Praxis negotiating with friends and family till you gain the confidence negotiating effectively with clients. I have been able to negotiate win win terms many times. It is not easy but can be done.

In one situation I was unable to convince a client why licensing is fair to them and us. The client was more than happy to pay licensing to NFL corporation but could not see the value in paying license to photographers. In this case I had used their products several images of mine featuring them in a far unique style they where use too.  They liked my work but did not want to pay for it. To create those images they will have to spend far more than my licensing fees stated. 

In another case I was hired to go on location for a production company from CA. All seem well they got my assignment terms and condition, an hour before I was suppose to be at the location they presented me with their work for hire terms. Unless I am compensated very,very well I do not do work for hire. I was sure I would end up not doing the job but after some negotiating they agreed to my terms for this assignment.

This is awful to read, Vincent, and though perhaps not as bad as your situation there abroad, as Iris also states, we seem to suffer the same lack of 'knowledge' here in the US as well.  And I have to say, if we simply do not budge on this issue while continuing to work on the uniqueness and quality of our own work, we may possibly change the trend.  To be sure, it will take a long time to turn the tide, but worth the effort.  Always keep in mind: we teach people how to treat us; if we accept unacceptable behavior (not being valued and honored as we should) then we've just added to the long string of 'training' these very clients have received before and perhaps after us, ingraining the misconception that such behavior is 'correct'.  No, we must insist on maintaining the standards which we want in place (ie; licensing terms) and be willing to move on from a client who does not wish to abide by them. 

I was attending a seminar of a well known Photographer that took place in Austin.  And I recall him saying...something to the effect of to stop crying foul about all the clients giving us a hard time about licensing and low pay rates.  WE (The photographers) created this.  To some degree, I agree but to some degree, I also disagree.  I blame it on the ones that bought a digital camera and started calling themselves as such from the get go and they were bidding low...commensurate with their experience (understandable).  So, when the seasoned pro's were bidding up against a bunch of freshman's it became hard.  Very hard.  The buyers were leveling us with the freshman's that were "good enough". In fact my friend thinks it is irreversible.  I disagree with him.

The root of the problem in which foresaw and I brought up to ASMP in the year 2000 (right about when digital was becoming somewhat affordable) was the photo schools churning out students by the thousands and not educating them on the licensing model and or what rates should be.  Nothing was done while a bloodbath was taking place...fast forward 11 years...the damage is done.  The schools are now just giving seminars or workshops on business to these young folks.  Too late now.  Now...you just have to find the clients that understand and value photography.  The ones that don't...I walk away from.  Eventually the tide will turn...perhaps, I am a little too optimistic and hopeful.  I dont know if this is how it is in some parts of Europe because they all have different laws.


I came across this french photographer that burned his negatives to make a statement.  Did it turn the industry around?  No.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAWNV3uB-Lc

So ask yourself...what is your legacy?  Value yourself!  Help others realize this.  I put up the following statement on my Facebook wall...and got a huge response from friends and peers.  I cannot claim it since I got it from an aphotoeditor pull quote (David Harry Stewart) but had to break it down to facebook status character limit.  But it hits home:

Making $$ in photography is difficult. Dont want to discourage u from ur dreams, u should always pursue whatever it is u love. Fact is in the last 3 years the business has changed immensely. It has gone from hard to very hard. Success requires vision thats relevant to the market, business sense & most of all perseverance. Theres a certain Darwinian element to it, those who try the longest & the hardest survive.

I have to agree Shazam. It really is about educating our clients and our peers as well as being firm in our business models. ASMP has some good articles on the subject of educating clients. We just have to keep on keeping on.

Take a close look at the words you are using on your Quotes & Invoices, to see if what you are actually billing them for, is for what they are actually getting from you - in their hands, so to speak, at the end of the day.

Because that's all that counts, as far as they are concerned.

1. What is it you are agreeing to provide them with ?
2. What is the deal, in terms of the amount of use agreed ?
3. Based on that information, what will that cost them ?